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Frank Stella: The European geometric painters really strive for what I call relational painting. The basis of their whole idea is balance. You do something in one corner and you balance it with something in the other corner. Now the “new painting” is being characterized as symmetrical. […] We use symmetry in a different way. It’s nonrelational. In the newer American painting, we strive to get the thing in the middle, and symmetrical, but just to get a kind of force, just to get the thing on the canvas. The balance factor isn’t important. We’re not trying to jockey everything around. Donald Judd: I don’t have any ideas as to symmetry. My things are symmetrical because I wanted to get rid of any compositional effects, and the obvious way to do it is to be symmetrical. Those effects tend to carry with them all the structures, values, feelings of the whole European tradition. It suits me fine if that’s all down the drain. Conversation broadcast on New York radio WBAI in the program “New Nihilism or New Art?”, 1964